The great thing about commuting (and my boss is perfectly aware of this): It makes me jump out of bed earlier (with vigor and vim) and I actually arrive at the office earlier than when I drive in, and more awake too.
The no so great thing (in my boss' eyes) is that I tend to leave the office a little earlier too, on those day that I ride home. It's hard to resist.. I want to leave right now and it's only 4:37..
Gonna make it a nice 90 minute endurance ride. I did miserable FTP intervals of 10 and 20 minutes last night..indoors.. especially hard because we just recently upped my FTP by many many watts. See that's the great thing about training with a power meter! You are required to adjust your intensity periodically. As much as I respect the HRM, you can't do that without a power meter and without Peaks software. If I used a HRM, I'd be at the same "LT" threshhold heart rate all season, even after the legs have adapted and gotten stronger and zones have shifted. For example, back in January, my tempo zone was 175 to 210 watts. Today, it's 205 to 245. Big difference. How hard would I be pushing myself after this much adaptation, if I followed my HRM?
If you're not careful, using only a HRM can mean you are under-training. Not pushing hard enough, not stressing systems enough (especially after a steep curve of adaptation).. next thing you know, you're performance is flat-lining. Thoughts? Discuss.
16 comments:
Murat
I train with a hrm, the most fustrating thing for me, is the fact that I don't know if I'm getting stronger. It's just a feeling or perecption not actual data. I "need" data!
Mike
If you were training with a HRM, your LT power could increase without your LT HR changing. Your performance would increase as your power to heart rate ratio increased. Without a power meter, you would have no way of documenting this other than an increase in average speed (or maybe by winning races!). Your power zones would increase without you knowing it and you would likely continue to train in the correct zones.
I'm not too familiar with HR training programs, but I think if your LT HR did increase, this would be picked up in a test similar to power testing. This is the point when you would make changes to your HR zones. You would see improved performance from being able to hold a higher LT HR, and therefore higher LT power.
wait
you WANT discussion?
um...
so how is upping your FT any different than paying attention to the RPE?
If you do nothing but 10 and 20 minute all out intervals w/o a HRM or a power meter.
You will get stronger. Take away the feedback and just fahking pedal the damn thing as hard as you can in the intervals and well. Provided you balance in enough recovery, enough tempo and a nice balance. Well. You will get stronger.
But this sort of "you can't get faster without buying a powertap and then it is useless unless you spend another $100 on some software" is really tiring.
You create needless powertap/SRM bike lust.
let your results speak for them selves.
If ya ain't in it for results, why ya using a power meter anyway?
/devils advocate
g
Per usual Ge, you are off topic.
It's little wonder that you do not charge people for that training advice..
;)
This post is about getting stronger WITHOUT a Power meter, and then not realizing it. It seems pretty clear to me that a 10-20 watt jump in FTP is not as evident as a 1-2 beat change in LT-HR..
Why must every mention of a power meter end up with my results being called into question? Win, lose or draw, I enjoy training and racing a lot more with the power meter. The data is satisfying. What part of this don't you understand?
Why am I even discussing this with a commuter who races cross for two months a year + Battenkill?
;)
You know what's tiring?
Your ignorance of how to properly make USE of the PT data, coupled with your dismissal of the device as a toy. Meanwhile, you own one and will probably never part with it.
As you get stronger, don't you have to produce more power to attain your LT HR? Whether you're aware of the exact increase in wattage or not, it's still there. There seems to be a tendency here to equate the method of measuring intensity with the desired outcome, but this isn't the case when working with HR - even if you're using HR to measure workload, your goal is still to increase power. You just aren't measuring that power directly.
"As you get stronger, don't you have to produce more power to attain your LT HR?"
No. If your body has adapted to training stress, it has the ABILITY to produce more power at the old LT-HR, but if you don't know this, and if you continue to use your old LT-HR, then your work outs are producing less power/less training stress than you think, less than you want them to. Hence the possibility of under-training, or rather, not stressing the systems sufficiently enough to cause adaptation.
I'm not sure I understand what changes then - if, as a result of training, my body has the ability to produce more watts at a given HR compared to 4 weeks ago, assuming I'm trying to go as fast as I can at that HR, how would I not produce more watts?
I don't mean to be nitpicky - I'm just curious and trying to understand how this works. I don't use either method - I'm mostly a track racer so my targets and efforts are based on time over a specific distance. My training is probably less efficient, but I find it converts easily to a racing context.
Also, I realize that LT HR can change over time and through training, but I don't know how significant a change can be expected in a trained athlete.
murat,
i train strictly with an HRM. i think it is the best and most economical way to go. it tells me a lot. when i am pushing too hard, or not enough. couple that with cadence and i can do any workout possible. this watts thing baffles me. i tend to think it is overkill.
if you get tested for you LT, you can do anything with the cheapest of hrms.
I do have a good polar that records. i do record races to see where i am at in relation to training so i can simulate crits/rrs/tts.
just my 2 cents.
good blog. i enjoy the read.
bigcrank, thanks for weighing in.
I was using a Polar heart rate monitor back in the early 90s when they were kind of chunky and primitive. and I used one for the previous four seasons. I do not deny that they are an essential training tool, but it really difficult to convince you of anything until you've seen the data that's possible with a power meter. HR data is only the tip of the ice berg. It's really only a clue or a hint about how well you're going. Power data, watts, tell so much about you that well.. I don't even use the chest strap of my Powertap anymore. All it tells me is my heart rate, which is an impossible measure of how much WORK I am doing. Training is work, and it needs to be done in precisely metered doses. Too little is no good. Too much is no good. Well, I can't indoctrinate you with just a few sentences.
You say you can do any workout you want to, using a HRM. I disagree.
Obviously, there is an infinite number of different intervals we can do in order to force adaptation. So what about the intervals which are short? under 5 minutes? under three minutes? If I was your coach and I required you to do three minute intervals at a power level equal to your LT +10%, how would you do them? The 3 min LT+10% is an essential interval workout, btw.. Would you take your LT-HR and go an extra 10% worth of bpm? You can try I guess! but in terms of power output, you're going to be way off the mark. Most likely, you're going to go too hard. Probably deep into zone 5b as you try to wind up your heart rate. As you no doubt know, your heart rate's delayed reaction to the stress is going to take at least 3-5 minutes to reach the "target" intensity (assuming you have the correct value in mind)!
It's not overkill.. but using only a HRM, in my mind, is like using the gas pedal as an indicator of intensity. "Look, I'm pressing the pedal down 1/2 way, so I must be at 50% of my LT!" No. "Hey look I'm flooring it! This must be zone 5!" or "I'm pressing it only 2/3 of the way to the floor, this must be tempo"..
Been there, done that.
If you've never used a power meter or seen the charts which Peaks software is capable of, then you're in no position to dismiss it!
Mike: you really hit the nail on the head. Improvements in form at an elite level are quite hard to detect, unless you do time trials every week, all season long. Power meters are becoming more and more an essential part of a racer's arsenal of training tools. I'd give up my STI shifters and my carbon frameset before I gave up my power meter. Seeing improvements in the data is intoxicating.
jtheskier,
your point is well taken. it's true that you can shift your heart rate zones based upon periodic testing of some sort.
Truth of the matter is, if power meters cost about the same or just a little more than the typical downloadable Polar HRM, there would be no more debates about which is a more useful tool. Right now a Powertap is a $1000+ investment.. and if I couldn't afford one, I'd probably justify my way out of it too. It's not for everyone. and not everyone needs one in order to adapt, get stronger and win races. I'm a lot less gifted than that, so I prefer to have one. It makes things a lot more interesting. Especially at those times when I fall apart completely or ride to failure in a race or a workout, looking at the data leading up to the melt down is so telling.. You learn exactly which system/zone you need to work on to prevent it in the future.. That kind of feedback is worth $1000 all day long.
Get your facts straight.
Meanwhile, you own one and will probably never part with it.
I owned one. AND i parted with it. I GOT RID OF IT MONTHS AND MONTHS AGO. As in over 6 months since using one. Close to 3,000 miles of riding since selling it.
Second.
Two months of Cross?
Lets see here:
September plus October plus November plus December - toss in a race in January.
Yeah. I count two months.
that's all - back to discussing whatever ya were...
By the way Ge, your deleted message is permanently saved in my Crackberry, and I'm afraid to read it.
In the future, please remember that any smiley faces or winks used in blogging basically negates any disrespect or insult contained within the context.
I was aiming for a nerve, I think I got one.
Sorry.
yeah - sounds like I hit one too esp if you take away any winky smilie crap
:D
you keep fahking riding that damn bike Murat - you'll get fast one of these days...
;)
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